The Property and Finance Show
Welcome to the First Brick Property Podcast, Australia's newest property podcast show! The First Brick Property Podcast brings a casual conversation style show to your ears! Education is the key, with episodes ranging a wide variety of topics as well as constant guest hosts, to give you the edge when it comes to buying property! Delivering property beginners and experts insights to help you get into the market or grow your portfolio. The Key - Education to create wealth through Property.The show is hosted by the Director of First Brick Property Buyers Agency (www.firstbrick.com.au) Kyrillos Mansour (AKA KM) who is hugely passionate about property and education.
The Property and Finance Show
The Future of Lending: Navigating Today's Property Market With Fadi Youssef - Powerloans
The property market shows remarkable resilience despite interest rate increases from historic lows of 1.98% to current rates of 6.4% for owner-occupied and 7% for investment loans. Market sentiment is improving with the recent rate cut, creating both challenges and opportunities for prospective buyers.
• Interest rates have increased dramatically since COVID yet property markets remain strong
• Many markets including Adelaide, Brisbane, and Perth continue to show positive growth
• Fixed rates used to be lower than variable, but the situation has now reversed
• Best time to buy is "when you can" rather than waiting for perfect conditions
• Increased competition expected when the next rate cut occurs
• Self-Managed Super Funds (SMSFs) becoming increasingly popular for property investment
• Different ownership structures emerging including corporate trusts for asset protection
• Positive cash flow investments harder to find but still achievable with larger deposits
• Banks continue to offer numerous lending options despite tighter conditions
• Many borrowers unaware of their current position or available options
Contact Fadi Youssef - Powerloans - Mortgage Broker to understand your borrowing options and ensure you're getting the best possible interest rate on your existing loans.
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Hello and welcome back to the Property and Finance Show your host, km Carlos Mentor. As always, and you won't believe, I'm very excited we have the OG back, not OG we have the. Og back from property and lending from the original Firstbrick podcast 2018 was it. The guy that makes sure that I can pay my bills? Uh, freddie yusuf from power loans. Yeah, welcome back thank you what an introduction, been a long time huh been ages.
Fadi Youssef:I think that's why we're here to discuss that, for reasons why yeah, I mean you've been pretending to be injured.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):Yeah, pretending to have children and broken. Telling me your wife's spending all your money Unbelievable. I can say it because she doesn't listen. Yeah, yesterday you played soccer. You were graced with me on your team.
Fadi Youssef:Yeah.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):For the first time. And the amount of shots you missed yesterday, I don't know what was off? I was absolutely off I got two goals, but at the end. So it's pressure, not easy having me, it's hard to play with greatness, that's true, I do it every week. Um, anyway, yeah, welcome back. Thank you, good to have you. We've been talking about doing this yeah now, we got ghee.
Fadi Youssef:I think with upgrade of in.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):Yeah, well, it looks different camera doesn't camera. We're working on that. So now we've got. We've got Samsung. Hopefully no one calls me during this recording. We're still looking for sponsors, or you're always looking for sponsors we've already filled up two of the four spots. Yeah, yeah. So if you are looking for, if you are looking for, if you want to sponsor the Property and Finance Show, please reach out to our sponsorship team. You can email us at hello at Firstbrick. Yeah, and you get a 30-second snippet on the pod. We'll have them on.
Fadi Youssef:We'll do a mid-roll. Yeah.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):You can play every episode.
Fadi Youssef:Why wouldn't you not go for that?
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):it's a no-brainer got millions and millions of people. It's pretty much the joe reagan. Yeah anyway, welcome back. It's been a while, um. Since it's been a while, I thought maybe let's just discuss um where the market's at from a lending perspective, because obviously I think last time we spoke on the podcast, rates were like 2%.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):So times have changed. So do you want to just tell? Do you want to just discuss I guess where? Well, since our last conversations, when rates were 2%, just after COVID, whatever, where have rates gone? Where are they at now? What's going on with interest rates?
Fadi Youssef:And it's actually, and you would know, as well.
Fadi Youssef:It's actually been absolutely nuts in regards to rates moving from, I think I was on 1.98% at one stage. We had customers on 1.59% when the early rates came through, and then over the last two years, and I think this is pretty much the last year where everyone fixed those low rates for four or five years. Genius move. I wish I did the same thing as well. So we're seeing those customers come off and it's pretty hard to see that you're going from a 1.98, let's say, to a. How did the rates come up to an occupied 6.4%?
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):Even in the sevens, for investments into sevens um, so it is a massive jump.
Fadi Youssef:So you see customers, men who are on, let's say, a 575 000 home loan, moving from 2 120 and moving up to, let's say I think about 3 500, just over 3 500, yeah and that's on a 500 000 loan.
Fadi Youssef:So you can just just imagine the high lending you've taken out, but nothing slowed down. And I think that's what we're beginning to realize that nothing's actually slowed down. So people are coming off as lower interest rates going on. The high interest rates and able to manage it Always comes down to and I always say this whether you come to power loans or not, it's always good to be in contact with your mortgage broker, um, because you never know what's out there, what you're I know. I think they were also learning, coming out of the lower interest rates, that no one knows what they're eligible for. They were just used to. You know, let's have that sweet, cheap interest rate.
Fadi Youssef:But now, moving forward, we're looking at workshopping deals. How do we look at, you know, lending going up, obviously with income coming through investment properties that are coming through as well, but like, like I said, it has not slowed down. It has not slowed down in the market either. So I guess my biggest question, the reason why I was so excited to do this today with you especially how's it looking all across Australia? Because right now in Sydney, as we can see, nothing slowed down. Everyone thought the rate cut in February, was it? We're going to see the market go up, which it has in a way? I'm in the market at the moment and nothing's absolutely slowed down, but people were thinking that the market was going to come down. Did we see that shift of coming down, or has it stabilized, and how is it across the country?
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):Yeah, no not really. Some markets in Sydney haven't moved positively, yeah, um, but if they haven't, they've been pretty stagnant.
Fadi Youssef:What do you mean by that?
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):like there. There are areas in sydney where they haven't grown yeah but they haven't dropped.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):Yeah, the prices have stayed the same, but there are areas in sydney, top end markets that have done really well. Um, you know, I know you're looking for a place and the markets you're looking at moving positively as well. So so there are definitely areas that producing well are still growing and have continued to grow. And then when we look outside of Sydney, adelaide continues to go crazy, brisbane still going hard, perth had a huge run, melbourne even starting to look like it's in recovery as well, starting to starting to move positively. So, yeah, even interest rates going up hasn't changed the market. Strange, because obviously you have less borrowing power in general and then the cash flow is not as good.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):Yeah, less borrowing power in general, and then the cash flow is not as good, but that's definitely something we noticed, like a lot of our clients. Like back in the day, people like your positive cash flow, but now it's people are asking for it and obviously having conversations around.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):Look, you're not going to be positive day one anymore because especially even if you're putting 20 deposit, which a lot of people are not putting anymore people are going 10 or 15 or 12, whatever, with the interest rates it's impossible. Yeah, interest only, even on 20 deposit. It's not going to happen.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):So the the market's still going wrong because I think these mark that we, we predominantly work in, are still affordable markets like 600 to 900K or 600 to 800K is still a very competitive market. Still a lot of people interested in that price point. So markets haven't slowed down and now that the rates have slightly dropped I've seen sentiment increase. So more people interested.
Fadi Youssef:I think that's the biggest one isn't it because that's what I'm seeing on every single week in open houses that people have got that sentiment in regards to a lot more confidence. I guess as well going out there to purchase the property of the hope of the race. They're just going to constantly go down from now on, or is that?
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):yeah, I think. I think people made a lot of money during COVID and held on to it and people have been on the fence for a little while, not sure if they want to spend, get in or not. But now that the rate has dropped the first time, I don't think we'll get another rate drop straight away. I think that would be a response, but I think it might take a couple goes before the rates come down, a couple meetings. But I think if it comes down again, the sentiment will be very positive. People will get very confident, people will start relaxing and being ready to spend.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):So if you are looking to buy, like you are, or lots of people are, interested in buying. Do I buy now? Do I not buy now? I think it's actually. I know I always talk about timing. The market is not important yeah but if you are trying to, if you are decided between now or in three months time and you can go, I think now is definitely better because the prices will. When the rates drop, people are going to jump in, correct?
Fadi Youssef:and and it's going to be pretty uh chaotic I think and isn't that the rule when the rates drop market goes up well, not so much a rule, but that's how we've always seen it throughout history is that the rates do go down. We see the market shift go upward, and when the rates go, well yeah, the market goes correct. I mean it's inverse so rates go down.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):You have more money. Yeah, correct rates go well. Yeah, the market goes correct. I mean it's inverse. So rates go down. You have more money. Yeah, correct rates go up. You have less money. Rates go up. The economy is doing poorly so people typically buy less. Yeah, rates go down. Market, you know markets doing doing well. Um, people have more money to spend. I mean the rates are going down for either two reasons the markets, the economy is doing well or not doing well at all yeah, and they're trying to stimulate.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):But yeah, I think if you're, if you're, if you're interested in buying a home or something to live in, for example, and you're thinking about now or three months, I'll be looking. If I had the money to move now, I'd be looking now, because at that next rate drop, whether it's in three months, I'd be looking. If I had the money to move now, I'd be looking now because at that next rate drop, whether it's in three months or six months, the longer it goes without, you know, the closer it gets to that rate drop, the sentiment is going to come back into the market and you're just going to have a lot more competition and no one was selling.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):There's no one selling.
Fadi Youssef:And, like you just pretty much said, is that everyone is pretty much ready. They've made money during COVID, or they've saved a lot of money during COVID and they're on the fence ready to pounce, and they're either waiting for the extra rate cut to come down and they're going to be in competition with everyone else that's also been sitting on that fence waiting to pounce.
Fadi Youssef:And I think it always goes back to something that you've always said, and I used to hate it at the beginning because I'm like, no, no, I'll wait, maybe the market will go down. Yeah, no, no, no, something's coming, but I reckon it's the best time to buy is when you can, and that's what I'm beginning to realize, especially in a market like this that's moving so, so fast. If I'm able to buy today, I'm hoping that you know I'm obviously going to be, uh, purchasing for a lower amount than I am going to be purchasing another two different yeah, yeah, for sure, I mean.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):yes, a lot of people hate what I say.
Fadi Youssef:It took a while for me to get it.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):But it's just you know, if you can afford to buy, buy because the market's not going backwards.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):You might have corrections and little dips and whatnot, but overall market's not going to go backwards. So you might as corrections and little dips and whatnot, but overall market's not going to go backwards, so you might as well run in. Yeah, now, how have the banks reacted to? Well, I'm guessing. Well, we spoke about it. So when the rates were on the way up, the banks were very reactive and they were happy to pass on the increases. But now that there has been a rate, have the banks passed that on? Have they been slow? Did they react quickly?
Fadi Youssef:So I think we had that discussion. I think when the day the rate came down, the rba announced the rates you know, our phones blew up yeah, I think every single broker's phone blew up yeah um, but yeah, um, insane. But I think all the lenders have passed their rates um up to now.
Fadi Youssef:Like we're obviously staying in contact with our customers we're obviously doing further pricing for customers on a on a quality basis, making sure they're on the best rate. But, um, I think the banks, I think this instance, everyone was waiting for this rate cut, so I'm I'm guessing they all passed it, so they're not going to be dealing with their phone calls coming through. Why isn't my rate going down or anything like that as well?
Fadi Youssef:yeah um, but in saying that, like even when you're saying in regards to properties that are positively geared, you know I don't think the banks have slowed down.
Fadi Youssef:The banks are always going to, you know, pass that rate down because eventually, like again, you have to be a proactive customer, have a proactive broker in regards to getting those rates down, but the banks haven't slowed down in regards to lending, yeah, is that we're working for a lot of proactive customers, a lot of more educated customers as well, and I think that comes down to working with people like you and a lot of referrers that we work with accountants, financial planners, and we're seeing customers come through, whether they're purchasing a property under their personal name as an investment to take, take advantage of the negative gearing there might be high income earners or where it may be or now we're seeing new structures coming through with, like more not new structures that always been around, but a lot more people are more aware of these structures.
Fadi Youssef:Whether you know, corporate trust, buying under a corporate trust, where it's more asset protection, where you're not so much taking advantage of the negative gearing portion yeah, it's more asset protection and ways you can use current companies or abns that you've currently at the moment to you know, take care of that cash flow as well to make it more positively geared. Um, we've also seen smsfs come through. Smsfs has been something like I don't know what it is this year. Is this something that you know? Everyone just figured out what an smsf was this year and everyone is purchasing under their self-managed super fund is what they call it. Yeah, uh, we've seen a lot of movement with that and it's interesting that you say that it's so hard to get a positively geared property where, under the smsf, it has to be positive.
Fadi Youssef:You don't get the lending unless it's positively geared and they do off the assessment rates as well. And obviously it's a lot more higher rates when it comes to whether you're buying a residential under your SMSF or a commercial under your SMSF. But we've seen a lot of people coming through using the SMSF funds in there to purchase investment properties, whether they've hit their maximum on their personal names and they're still looking to still invest in the market. They're now looking at other options, for example SMSF. So in regards to that, say what the rates were 1.982% you could probably get away with just putting 20% deposit down.
Fadi Youssef:Yeah, smsf loan, that's positively good. These days you're seeing between what 30% to sometimes just over 30% of a deposit that you're using out of the funds of your smsf to purchase it. To be positive, yeah. But again, customers have not slowed down. A lot more proactive. The banks have definitely not slowed down. I just feel me in the last ever since coven. It's just a lot more options that we're getting from the banks, whether it's for residential. We've seen a lot more for commercial, a lot more people again being proactive, purchasing commercial, purchasing businesses. So it's a crazy and awesome time to be alive, because we I've never seen this.
Fadi Youssef:I've never seen where rates have gone up and the market has stayed the same, like I said staying there or again going more positively geared in certain areas, like, like I said, I'm in the market now looking in certain areas that you know you grew up in, I went to school in and then have you ever like what let's say 10, 15 years ago, would you ever thought the area that we grew up in would have been where we are today.
Fadi Youssef:No, no, no way, you didn't know no way like but it's crazy yeah, it would be nuts, like if I told you 10, 15 years ago you'd have to, you know, purchase a property for 1.7 million in that area, sell a kidney, sell a kidney. But like you'd think, no way, you'd probably buy two properties with 1.7 million. Yeah, 1.7 million for the area is pretty crazy yeah yeah, but that's what I'm saying like the crazy time, because we've seen rates go pretty high up Like we haven't seen like increases like that since 2009, 2010 and back then. What happened to the property market that went?
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):there was a slight dip. It wasn't a crash in 09, it was in in australia, overseas.
Fadi Youssef:There was massive, massive crash um, but we saw a lot more drop in.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):We did have drops, yeah um, but it was a pretty quick recovery as well.
Fadi Youssef:It didn't last long, but this one, I didn't see any drop.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):Well, I didn't I didn't feel a drop yeah, I mean sydney and melbourne. Overall dropped slightly yeah, statistically but sydney is a big place and this is what I always tell people. Like the data doesn't tell a story when you're looking at such generalized data. Because Sydney right, what comes under Sydney data? Yeah, campbelltown, raby, st Helens Park, whatever.
Fadi Youssef:Central Coast, everything.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):But also Point Piper Vaucluse, you know.
Fadi Youssef:Not everyone can live there. Where's the?
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):bloody. What's that suburb? Piedmont, piedmont suburb, like those suburbs, all come under sydney yeah so the data okay, sydney was like minus one percent or 0.5 percent, whatever it was, over the last 12 months. Um, but what does that really mean?
Fadi Youssef:I was gonna say that's, but in saying that, if you're including all those areas, yeah, it's obviously going to bring.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):so you got to look at it as a suburb by suburb, yeah, kind of thing. And then, like, if you're including all those areas, it's obviously going to bring. So you've got to look at it as a suburb by suburb kind of thing. And then, if you look at, bankstown went up, parramatta went up. If you look at Liverpool stagnant you look at the major or mini CBDs, you can get a bit more of a story. Campbelltown went up, so you have areas that have performed, areas that didn't perform. But as a generalization, sydney actually went down a bit.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):but you wouldn't have noticed yeah, because the areas that have dropped are not the areas that us common people buy in. Yeah, since you're buying 100 million dollar property in point piper, yeah, uh, so, so it's um. Yeah, but it's funny you mentioned smsf because I because I've also this year had the most amount of SMSF purchases come through, maybe because they're from you.
Fadi Youssef:Yeah.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):So it's correlated.
Fadi Youssef:But you're right, there's a lot of options and I think it's very important.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):I don't know, every time you or Mark are on, we say the same thing Contact your broker, Find out how much your rates get. But you know what you, literally before we started recording, you asked me hey, did you check your rates? Did they come down? And I said oh, yeah, nah. And you're like, oh, but I've done it for you. So it's something I think people should definitely do, especially if rates are coming down now you don't want to be stuck.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):My rates were over 7%, so you don't want to be stuck paying 7, 8, 9, whatever. Yeah, for sure, especially because people are feeling the pinch and a lot of my clients, or a lot of people that want to buy, are asking me okay, well, cash flow is such a big discussion now Because they've got one or they've got two, but they want to buy a third one. But if rates are still at 6.5%, 7% retail, then they're going to be like, oh, it's a bit tight on cash flow. So cash flow is becoming a bigger and bigger conversation and that's why we spoke about it so much two years ago and three years ago and last year, four years ago, when we were doing the podcast, we always kept saying cash flow is important, cash flow is important. Cash flow is important because the rates are not going to see that two percent forever. So those, the people that planned and we bought those kinds of properties yes, now they might not be positive, yeah, but they're fine whatever a hundred dollars a week.
Fadi Youssef:Two dollars a week to own an asset 800 grand or something. It's not a big deal.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):Um. So just regarding fixed rates, you mentioned it before. Um so you said I wish I knew and I would have fixed my rates at 4% or whatever.
Fadi Youssef:Right 5%. My decision was fix my rate for one point, and this is the most embarrassing thing for my broker. Was 1.98 for three years or 2.18 for five years, and at that time I think everything was happening for me I was getting married, buying a new house. I had no money and I'm like I'll save the $60 a month, do it for three years, but yeah, like I said, people actually push it to four to five years around the 2% average.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):Yeah, it's hard to know, though, because when you're in that moment, obviously the fixed rate is usually higher than the variable rate.
Fadi Youssef:Not that time, not that time.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):Yeah, because it works inverse right. So they're promising you a bit of a lower one and say, but you're going to fix it. But you're thinking, oh, the variable rate's going to come down anyway yeah but it's like right now, right, we wouldn't recommend anyone fix their rates, right so when we we have a lot of people, because at the end of the day the fixed rate.
Fadi Youssef:There's two reasons why people take it it's a cheaper repayment or it's lower than the variable, which it is at the moment as well. So the fixed rates are lower than the variable at the moment. Or just assurance that they know that the next one year or 24 months this is my repayment. So you have a lot of people saying we just want to know that the next two years this is going to be our repayments because we've got other plans in the background, which is fair enough. But when we have customers calling up now and they're looking for the fixed rate, we're like oh, how long are you looking to fix it for? Or how long do you think it's going to take for the rba to bring the rates down?
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):such a big discussion at the moment yeah, yeah, I, I think, um, it's hard to. It's hard to like, because you're trying to predict the future, which is obviously impossible. Yeah, um, but don't be hiding yourself. That was it. That's all I wanted to say. Um, any any indication on what the banks are going to be doing moving forward? Um, I guess today was just a general conversation, but if someone's listening to this today.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):I'm thinking I want to buy a property, I want to invest or save me up or anything. Any indication what the bank's products will look like in the next three months, for example?
Fadi Youssef:Well, like I said, the banks haven't slowed down. The amount of options out there for everyone is absolutely crazy. There's always going to be an option, Whether you've got an option today to get a home loan or a residential investment commercial, whatever you're pretty much looking for, or we can work towards that goal, and that's something, I guess, that we talk a lot about. If you're not ready today, then let's get you in a position where you are going to be ready to at least invest in the market, because you might not be far away. And that's something that we've realized over the last three to four years. Customers actually don't know what position they're in. They just guess, oh, you know what, the market's too much, I can't afford. But they just don't know what position they're in and what they can actually have access to.
Fadi Youssef:So again we go back to the SMSF. People Like, okay, I've hit my maximum, what can I do now? If I've got like a referral partner around them or people like yourself, you can probably purchase through an investment property for SMSF. People don't know that. So, moving forward, I think again I'll go back to that point Whether you get in contact with Power Loans or you're in contact with a local broker. Just as long as you're seeing a mortgage broker, he's going to be him or her is going to be able to give you a world of options Instead of walking into a bank because that bank might. You know. You might be looking for a personal loan, a business loan, a commercial loan down the track, but that bank doesn't offer those.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):Yeah.
Fadi Youssef:Those options. It's always going to go back to men. If you are thinking about getting into the market or you don't think you can afford to get in the market, have that conversation. It's conversations that we love having because, at the end of the day, we love having people come through asking a million questions and putting through that process in regards to getting to their target, their goals and targets.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):For sure. I mean, I know I ask you a lot of questions when I want to get money. Smsf, I think we should do an SMSF podcast separate.
Fadi Youssef:Absolutely.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):Maybe we'll get KG on.
Fadi Youssef:Yeah.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):Financial planner can talk to us about SMSF.
Fadi Youssef:There's actually so much about that, and KG would be a good addition to explain, I guess, the regulations and laws behind it.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):The boring stuff. The boring stuff that we don't want to hear.
Fadi Youssef:But no, it'd be a really good because, like I said, of them this year and not a lot of people are aware of. First, of all what they are exactly the superpower of what they are or how they work. Yeah, and the options actually there, because you, you find people like now I'm done investing, but are you or yeah, you think you are done, it's almost a free property absolutely I actually put it as a property anyway, it's a let's, let's say with the sms, because we could speak about that for an hour and this.
Fadi Youssef:Yeah, don't get me wrong, so just to say, like the smsf and I always say this to all customers because everyone's like, oh, what about the rates? Or anything like that obviously the rates are going to be a little bit higher because they it is under a trust, it's you know it's under a separate entity. You're not going to see any of the fruits of this property anytime soon, until you retire. So it's something like do you know when you buy an investment property? I told you this before we purchased our first investment property.
Fadi Youssef:I'm like I just want to buy a property and I don't want to think about it, Literally, if you buy a property under your SMSF besides getting the rental income coming through and all that, you do not have to think about it. That's the aspect that I love about it Purchase something, leave it in the background until you retire and see what the fruits bear when it comes down to retirement.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):Yeah, for sure. Anything else you want to? No, we can wrap it up Now. I really want to press this button. I want to see if it works.
Fadi Youssef:I was expecting more. I don't know if that's going to come out on the recording or not?
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):but if it doesn't, it's just people clapping All right, cool. Well, I think that was a good first episode. Back general chat. Uh, we'll do an sms f1 soon and anything else that comes up.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):Um, let freddy or myself know and, as always, contact freddy, contact power loans if you have a loan, find out if your, if your rates can get better or if your packaging get better. If you don't and you're interested to call them anyway, because you don't know until you speak to someone you could be sitting on a bucket of money that you're not sure about. You might have equity that you can release. You might have different options. There's 20, the days of 20. Only loans are just just deposits, are not a thing anymore. There are so many, so many options and people call me every day saying, oh, I don't have any money, I can't borrow. And they've got all this money. I'm thinking, but in their mindset they don't have the option. So give them a call, put their details in the show notes and we'll snip this episode up and present it and I'll send it to Fetty so you can post it everywhere and make sure our heads are all over the internet for a week or so.
Fadi Youssef:Yeah.
Kyrillos Mansour (KM):As always, thank you for listening and see you next time.
