The Property and Finance Show
Welcome to the First Brick Property Podcast, Australia's newest property podcast show! The First Brick Property Podcast brings a casual conversation style show to your ears! Education is the key, with episodes ranging a wide variety of topics as well as constant guest hosts, to give you the edge when it comes to buying property! Delivering property beginners and experts insights to help you get into the market or grow your portfolio. The Key - Education to create wealth through Property.The show is hosted by the Director of First Brick Property Buyers Agency (www.firstbrick.com.au) Kyrillos Mansour (AKA KM) who is hugely passionate about property and education.
The Property and Finance Show
The First Brick: Building Your Property Investment Foundation
Breaking into property investment doesn't require a fortune or decades of expertise – just the right foundation and a clear understanding of your options. In this enlightening conversation with Kyrillos Mansour from First Brick Property Buyers Agency, we strip away the complexity surrounding first-time property investing to reveal accessible pathways that most Australians never discover.
Kyrillos shares how his journey from optometrist to property buyer's agent revealed the transformative power of that critical first investment property. Working with first-time investors, he's witnessed how the right initial purchase creates options and opportunities that compound over time, while poor choices can stifle progress for years.
We tackle the biggest misconception keeping potential investors sidelined – that enormous capital is required to enter the market. From professional packages allowing doctors and lawyers to borrow up to 95% without LMI, to family guarantee loans enabling zero-deposit purchasing, today's lending landscape offers multiple entry points for prepared investors. You'll learn exactly how these strategies work and which might suit your circumstances.
The age-old debate between growth-focused versus yield-focused properties gets practical examination through the lens of different investor profiles – from high-income medical professionals to single-income earners just starting their careers. Kyrillos explains why "growth is king" while acknowledging serviceability matters tremendously when building a sustainable portfolio.
Perhaps most valuable is the perspective shift around timing and location. Rather than obsessing over interest rate fluctuations or limiting yourself to familiar suburbs, successful investors adopt what Phil calls "strategic patience" – understanding property investment is fundamentally a "get rich slow scheme" that rewards thoughtful, data-driven decisions held through multiple market cycles.
Ready to place your first brick in the foundation of your investment future? This episode provides the blueprint you've been searching for.
This episode was recorded Via The Smart Property Investment Show
Episode has not been altered in any way
Intro for Property And Lending Show
Ever feel like you're watching everyone else invest while you're still stuck figuring out where to start? You're not alone. Most people want to invest but get caught up in research, second-guessing every move, worried about messing it up. That's where we come in. Smash Property is a specialist end-to-end investment property buyers agency. We guide you with clear, honest strategy so you know exactly what to buy, where to buy and how to make property work for you. Investing should feel straightforward, not stressful. Spots are limited. Lock in your free strategy. Call now at smashpropertycomau. Slash call. This is a Momentum Media Production.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Smart Property Investment Show, the podcast by investors for investors.
Speaker 3:G'day, how you going. Phil Tarrant, host of the Smart Property Investment Show, I hope you're well tuning in wherever you are dialed into investing in property. And it's a great privilege during this podcast is that we sort of connect and engage with a whole bunch of people that sort of tell us their story investing in property and the hows and the whys and the whos and the wherefore of how they got into property investment. And I must admit sometimes I probably don't read the room well enough, based on some of the feedback they get that we sometimes assume quite a lot of knowledge when it comes to property investing, whereas a lot of people who find this podcast might be relatively new to investing and might not be too sure exactly what it's all about. Because we've been doing it for so long. You just think that most people can keep up with a lot of the maybe sometimes complicated and complex terms and strategies we used in property investment. So a bit of feedback that's been coming in lately is around hey, this is all very good, but I'm new to investing. Can you sort of dial it back a bit and bring it back a notch and get back to the basics. And it's always good for property investors, even if you have a large portfolio. To get back to the basics, and from what I've seen, the best property investors in Australia they understand what the basics are and the basics being the basic building blocks for being successful in property investing. So I've asked him to try and find to get someone to come in the studio with us have a chat about sort of bringing it back for those first time investors. Yes, this person does a lot of the sophisticated stuff but I think he can speak quite well towards some of the new to market, new to industry, new to property investment type terms and terminology and just mindsets and approaches to it all. So that's what's going to be today's focus. So if you've sort of got 100 property portfolio and been doing it for 20 or 30 years, maybe this is not the right one for you. But for those of you who are relatively new to property investing and trying to get a handle on how it all works and what it's all about, maybe this is the podcast for you and you would have picked it up by reading it in the narrative in the show notes before you press play.
Speaker 3:Join him in the studio Krillis Mansour. He's from First Brick Property Buys Agency and what he likes to do and when the team was out there trying to find something, to have a chat with us. He likes to work with first-time investors and going on a journey with them, educating and supporting them through the way. So I think that's how we'll frame and approach today's podcast. Krillis, how are you going? Good? Good, thank you for having me. That's good. Good to see you, mate. Thanks for coming in. Yeah, it says in the name you actually like doing the first bit and going on a journey with someone.
Speaker 4:Yeah, when we were looking for the name, I was sitting with a group of friends in a garage, as you do.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And I was just. I said I don't know what I want to call it, but I do want it to be about the start of a new journey or the start of something, and then building something great and from nothing, and and then building something great from nothing, and then, so obviously, the first brick of a building, the first brick, is your stepping stone, and then you continue to build bricks, put bricks on top of more bricks and you build a house, you build a building, and so it's like a ladder, it's like a step ladder of bricks and yeah, so, from the first to you know, the first brick starts your journey, and so that's how it came about. So how important is? The first brick starts your journey, and so that's how it came about. So how important is the first brick? Yeah, I think it's very important. I think, in general, real estate is a very forgiving market, so if you get it wrong, you're going to be okay, but you're going to have to wait quite a while to be okay and start again. So I think if you get the first one right, and that's through strategy and planning and not just guessing and buying anything, I think it can really set you up for the future and give you a lot of options.
Speaker 4:We speak to a lot of people. For example, yesterday I was speaking to someone who said look, I don't know if I want to buy a home in three years or if I want to keep investing. I haven't made that decision yet. But this is my circumstance now, and so getting that first property right gives him that option in three years time to make that decision. If he wanted to keep investing and rent on the side, he could. Or if he wanted to buy his really big, fancy house and live in it, he could as well. But if he got that wrong and he just guessed his way through the first one, it would cripple his decision-making in that three years.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's a good reason why most Australian property investors only own between one or two properties, because often the first property they buy is not a property that's going to provide for a long-term sustainable ability to keep growing and building a large portfolio. So the first brick is absolutely critical and arguably more people probably get it wrong than right. Yeah, and I'm a big proponent of what you've just said there and that is sort of the optionality, Like if you get the buying right, it pretty much gives you time for decision making. So, like you know, three years time, four years time, whatever. And that example is like whether or not he wants to keep investing or buy a home, Fine, you can worry about that when you get there. You know if you buy the wrong property first, you're not going to get that option to actually make that choice. But if you get the right property first guess what you can make that choice when you get there. You don't need to rush it right now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, for sure, and I think, like working in the industry and yourself, obviously, interviewing so many people in the industry we're always talking about building a plan, on a strategy on how to buy two, three, four, five, six, whatever properties. But there's a lot of people out there that their goal is to buy a home, their dream home, and that's it, and they don't want to build a portfolio, or they don't, it's not their priority, their priority is the home and then a portfolio, for example, and or they're just unsure and they don't know which way they want to go, because their life is changing they're getting married, they're getting divorced, whatever it is, they're having kids, they want to travel first, and so getting it right at the start can just give you option, and then, when you get to that point where you're ready to figure it all out again, then you can build that plan. So, yeah, I think first brick is very important.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is, and probably can be, forgiving, and it can be forgiving of mistakes. Then to your point sometimes it takes a long time for those mistakes to be fixed and that can really stifle you. But what I find is, with property investing, the best property investors I know is that they apply, or they sort of take an approach of sort of strategic patience, and that is, you can't do things too fast, you deliberately need things to go slower sometimes, and time is a great enabler for choices and decision-making. So don't rush it. That's a key thing. Don't rush it, whereas there's way too many people in a rush these days.
Speaker 4:I think yeah, for sure. I was giving a talk, a presentation, the other day, and the number one, I mean, question everyone gets, I guess, is when should we buy? How quickly should we buy? The second one, and I guess the answer that I guess a lot of people say and I agree with is it's when you're ready.
Speaker 4:If you're not ready, don't rush. But if you are ready, then there's probably no point of waiting any longer. It's when you're ready is the time to jump in, and when you're ready is when your finances are sorted. When you've got a buffer in place, if things go wrong, you're still going to be able to survive and live and not have to rely on two minute noodles and beans to get through. I'm a big believer that real estate is there to enhance your lifestyle and enhance your life and not make it worse. And so if I'm going to buy something and it's going to be I'm rushing to get into the market, but as a consequence, that means I'm going to have to live off two minute noodles for the next three years and annoy my wife as well, and it's probably not the right time for me to jump in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you don't want to compromise too much right through investing in property, and sometimes you've got to wait. It might not be your time and waiting is okay. So how did you end up doing what you're doing? Did you go to school and grow up wanting to be a buyer's?
Speaker 4:agent? No, I went to school and wanted to be a teacher, and both my sisters are teachers. They're 10 years older than me, so I saw them. Great profession yeah, they enjoy what they do. But I wanted to be a PE teacher or a sports teacher or work in business. I didn't know what in business, I just liked business. I liked watching Shark Tank and all the rest. And when I was at school, one of my subjects was business studies and I never studied it. It just made sense to me and I did really really well in year 12.
Speaker 4:What did you learn in business studies at school? I don't remember. My sister was the business teacher as well. So I hope she's not listening. She wasn't your teacher, was she she?
Speaker 3:was. I was actually in a classroom with your sister teaching you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, oh God, yeah 10 years older than me, so she How'd that go? Did she get in trouble a?
Speaker 4:lot, yeah, often, and it was unfair because my punishment was just, you know, she told my parents and they let me have it. So everyone else just got a detention or something. But yeah, it just made sense to me. I wasn't sure exactly what I wanted to do, so I said, look, I'll just study hard, I'll get the best marks I can get, then I'll have options and then figure it out. And so once I finished school, I had early offers to business studies, early offers to teaching, and then one of my mates said, hey, I'm going to go to Geelong and study optometry. And I said, oh, what's?
Speaker 4:that about and I looked into it, and so optometry is a five-year degree, but if you went to Geelong you could do it at over three years only, without taking any holidays. No breaks, no holidays at all no breaks. Okay, you get one week between end of year and new semesters. That was it. Which uni is down in Geelong Deakin?
Speaker 3:That's Deakin down there. Yeah, Deakin University.
Speaker 4:And so it was a brand new degree, a brand new course at Deakin. And I said to him I didn't do any science subjects, I didn't do anything. I didn't do any science subjects, I didn't do anything. But this optometry sounds all right. Because my thought process was well, I don't need a business degree to do business, but you probably need money and optometry is what was a high paying career at the time when you finished university and I feel like I could do it in three years. A business degree is going to take four years. So I'm going to finish an optometry degree much quicker than anything else Teaching. I'm going to finish an optometry degree much quicker than anything else. Teaching is four years, business is four years, so I'll finish it early. I'll get paid well, then I'll take the money and go into business. And so I moved to Geelong. I studied optometry, didn't enjoy the study at all, had no interest in it, didn't enjoy it at all.
Speaker 4:I enjoyed the lifestyle and living abroad and living not abroad but interstate, and living with mates and being independent and whatnot. But I did not enjoy the study. I had no interest in it and it wasn't my thing. Like a lot of people in school just understood science. I didn't. I understood business. But I got through it, got my job, made some money and then just moved into businesses. I owned a restaurant, I owned a perfume and makeup business. I owned a restaurant. I owned a perfume and makeup business. I sold running socks. I've done a whole bunch of weird things.
Speaker 4:But then when I was at university I was reading books about property. My dad got a book from a seminar that he went to and my dad doesn't read books so he sent it to me. I read it and it changed my mindset about everything. I thought, okay, this property thing is cool. But the book was very much about theory on how to build a portfolio, but it wasn't very practical on how do I know where to buy a property, how do I know this is a good location or not? So I started listening to every podcast under the sun I was listening to the Smart Property Investment podcast from a long time ago.
Speaker 4:I graduated university at 20, or 19, 20. You graduated at 20? Yeah, three years. So when did you finish school?
Speaker 3:17, yeah.
Speaker 4:I went straight into university and finished at 20.
Speaker 3:So you're living alone by yourself, along with mates from early 18?.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So, yeah, pretty much Trouble, yeah, pretty much Trouble. And property books, eating Maggi noodles Were you eating well? I was not eating well. Yeah, and I still don't know how to make anything. Yeah, thank you to my wife for keeping me alive. But yeah, I just got in love with property and the theory of property. But then I started researching on how to actually buy property and there wasn't much out there at the time. So this is 10 years ago.
Speaker 4:Yeah okay, and I found some resources on how to figure it out, and so I said I'm just going to work it out myself. So I built a spreadsheet of data and information on suburbs random data, I could find free information and then I built this pretty big spreadsheet that was covering a couple of around a thousand suburbs across the country, and then purchased my first property with my contract that I had with my salary, and got some bank to agree to give me some money. And then my mates were like hey, can you help us? We want to buy property too. And so I started helping them. And then I have one of my good friends. He loves property, he's built a property app as well, and he said to me you know you can get paid to do this. I said who's going to pay me to buy property? What does that mean? And he said there's this thing called buyer's agency or being a buyer's agent. And I looked into it, and so during my own education I also did a real estate license, just for my own knowledge.
Speaker 4:Yeah sure, and so I was already licensed. Yeah, and so I quit my job and I started Firstbrick literally like two days later after he told me about it.
Speaker 3:Okay, that's pretty impulsive and responsive when you know.
Speaker 3:You know it was lots to unpack there. Yeah, let's go to a break. Stay with us. We're going to look into this with Krilas when we come back back in a moment. Welcome back, phil Tarrant, host of the SmartPort Investment Show, with Krillis Mansour. He's from First Break Property Buyers Agency. So you heard of this thing called being a buyer's agent and you get paid professionally. So you quit your job as a professional, as an optometrist? Yeah. So what did you just walk into? Were you working like in a clinic or somewhere other? Yeah, so what's an optometrist? Is that when you sort of look through that thingamajig and they I don't know what you call it and they sort of move lenses around and they say you need these glasses? Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 4:Is that what an optometrist does? So an optometrist is a, a medical professional that specializes on eyes. Yeah, so we check your eyes, for obviously, you know the basic one is getting your glasses. You know, if people need glasses, we get the right lenses and the right power and the prescription to get your glasses or contact lenses. But also there's a big part of it which is health-related.
Speaker 3:So we're looking for diseases and you know issues you can tell a lot about through the eyes, right, because they take, take like photos of your eyes and stuff yeah, so it's going.
Speaker 4:So when, when I was practicing, we had like a little lens and a very shiny light that would be put in front of your eye and we could see the back of your eye and we'd look at it. But yeah, now photos are a bit more like. These machines that take photos are a bit more widespread across we look for just stuff that looks wrong and then go yeah, if it doesn't look right here, of course someone um, pretty much we're looking.
Speaker 4:You can see diabetes before someone knows that they've got diabetes through your eye. What does diabetes look like through the eye? You see like some blood vessels that don't look all right and you can see like bleeding and whatnot in the back of your eye. So a lot of things happen in the back of your eye before it presents at the front, before you can physically see it by the back of your eye.
Speaker 3:Do you mean the back of the retina bit, or yes, okay, yeah, so where the retina is In your eye. So not behind your eye, yeah, yeah, not behind, but in your eye, but at the back of it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so where the light hits the retina and all the blood vessels and everything's, that's where it is Okay. Yeah, that's what an optometrist does. All right two years, and then I was Did you like any of it? No, it's very routine. You say the same thing all day, every day.
Speaker 4:You make the same jokes with the patients. You're sitting in a dark room because it needs to be dark so we can see your eyes properly, and it's quite sleepy environment and it just wasn't for me. I like to run around and do things, but while I was working as an optometrist, I did own a restaurant at the same time. What sort of restaurant? Did you have. It was an Arabic Middle Eastern restaurant Whereabouts In Campbelltown, in Campbelltown. Yeah, what was it called? It was called Shisha, mosaic, shisha.
Speaker 3:Mosaic. Yeah, like you go in there and just have a shisha and get some food.
Speaker 4:Get some food. Yeah, yeah, some shawarma. Yeah, all of it, yeah. So that kept me. That was what excited me during the-.
Speaker 3:Was it successful the restaurant.
Speaker 4:We broke even in like four months, okay, which is pretty quick for hospitality, yeah yeah, but I had that for a couple of years, and then we sold it off. It's hard going, though, isn't it? Yeah Well, I was working as an optometrist from nine to five, and then I'd head out to the restaurant straight away and then be there from about 5.30 to one in the morning, every day, six days a week.
Speaker 3:Were you cooking or were you sort of on the-?
Speaker 4:No, no, I definitely wasn't cooking, they'd be getting two minute noodles. No, I was just on the floor and serving and running the business behind the scenes. But I was just there every day getting supplies and you know I was very data-driven even in that, like I'd get all the receipts from what everyone ordered and then try and forecast what we're going to need.
Speaker 4:What was your favorite dish? I think our most popular dish was just like a chicken shawarma burger. Yeah, it was pretty basic, pretty standard. People were usually coming for the shishas, to be honest.
Speaker 3:So people were just sitting around with shishas. Yeah pretty much you served beer.
Speaker 4:No, no, we didn't have an alcohol license. It's hard to get in Campbelltown.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, so you're working as an optometrist and also running a restaurant? Yeah, and what a perf makeup perfume business somewhere. Makeup business is.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then you went. Someone went, you should become buyer's agent. Yeah, so you went, okay, yeah, I'd already done my real estate license. So just next day bam.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so at that point I had sold the restaurant so I had a bit of time. Yeah, and I was. I realized I was pretty bored. I had some 6 pm to midnight to do nothing.
Speaker 4:And I said what do people do? People watching movies and whatnot? It's not for me. And so, yeah, he told me about this buyer's agency thing. I looked into it and I said, yeah, this is what I want to do. This seems interesting. I like property, I like to help people buy property, I like to talk about property, I like to educate people about property. It's just what I've. I had a passion for it and I didn't know that I had a passion for it. It just I had an interest. It was more than a hobby, because even after I bought my own property, I was still updating those spreadsheets, just for my own.
Speaker 3:So was your first property investment property or an owned or occupied home Investment Investment which buy? What was it?
Speaker 4:It was in Geelong. Yeah, we bought it for $600,000. It was, and now it's valued around $1.1.
Speaker 3:I was going to say at that time it was not bad. Buying in Geelong yeah, what was it in one of the suburbs out of Geelong?
Speaker 4:So it's in Highton, just across from Deakin University. So I did all this research and ended up buying where I lived for university and then after that we moved into, we bought Brisbane and Adelaide.
Speaker 3:So what sort of value portfolio do you have now?
Speaker 4:So it's around just over five, five and a half million.
Speaker 3:Yeah, good, and you're just still buying, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I recently built an app, so I spent a lot of money on that. Oh, okay. Not on property, not on property. I have no different industry. But yeah, I think this year we'll be looking at buying another property. Yeah, Okay. Last couple have been commercial. They'll probably stick to commercial as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you're going through journey as an investor yourself and you like working back to this idea around the first brick with people who are starting out as property investors. What do you think the sort of biggest misconception is for people about investing in property if they're just starting out?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think it's. The biggest misconception is you got to have a lot of money to get into the market, and it's just simply not true. There are so many in today's environment. There are so many loan options and products available to help people get into the market, whether it's low percentage loans or low percent deposits. So 10%, 15%, 5%. We work with a lot of doctors and medical professionals and they don't realize that they can borrow up to 90% or 95% without paying LMI.
Speaker 3:Yeah, doctors get it, medical professionals get it. Good yeah, medical professionals get it good.
Speaker 4:Yeah, medical professionals get it good, so do solicitors and chartered accountants. So there's a few professions out there where I've got one guy who every time he saves up $35,000, he calls me and we buy a property because 5% deposit, no LMI, and he's quite leveraged at the moment. I bet you he is, but he can afford it because of his job. He's a doctor. Okay, yeah, so his income is pretty solid.
Speaker 3:He's a young bloke.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he's 27, 26, 27.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so he's making money, but he's just leveraging up.
Speaker 4:Yeah, pretty much, and he's happy to do so, and his wife is also a doctor, so their incomes are quite high. But besides that, you've got guarantor loans as well, which are pretty. I'm finding they're being used more and more often these days by people to get into the market For investment purposes For investment purposes.
Speaker 3:Well, it's all like first home owners. Now, like I can't remember, maybe 60% of getting some sort of maybe it's even higher, I can't remember the number Getting of sort of family support in order to get into it. So the same, the number getting of sort of family support in order to get into it.
Speaker 4:So the same thing's happening with first-time investors, yeah, and I don't know if it's because we post a lot of content on our socials and so a lot of people have been watching our feed for a few years and they come through and they say, hey, we've been watching stuff for ages and we don't want to buy a home, we want to invest, we just want to build a home we want to invest.
Speaker 4:We just want to build a portfolio. But they're like we're young, we don't have eaves of cash on us, so they're using guarantor loans often to get into the market, and so I think one of the biggest misconceptions is having to have so much money. And the benefit of Not rushing because we were talking about that earlier, but getting in earlier is obviously the longer you hold a property, the more compound growth that you can achieve and the more money you can make long-term. So even if it's not buying multiple properties straight away and just getting that one if you're ready, and even if you're ready via a guarantor loan or a low deposit loan, it could be very beneficial in the long run.
Speaker 3:So there's a couple of terms that we're using here you might not be familiar with. So the view towards what I mentioned at the top end of this podcast around, if you're relatively new to property investing, get you across some of this stuff. Lmi is Lenders, mortgage Insurance, so essentially LVR is the loan to value ratio. So this is the value of the loan versus the size of the loan, versus the value of the property, and most people invest at sort of 80%. So for really really simple numbers, if it's a million dollar property loan to value ratio of 80% would be $800 million, would be the debt and $800,000.
Speaker 3:Sorry $800,000 would be the debt and $200,000 would be the deposit. What LMI does? It means you can borrow at higher amounts at 85, 90, 95% sometimes. Every now and then someone do 100%. Yeah. I remember way back when I started investing. You'd be able to get 103%, yeah. So what this means is that you need to put in less deposit, which is good. It means your debt against the property is higher. So what they do is LMI's lender's mortgage insurance. It's insurance policy taken out by the lender against you that you pay for on the basis that if you can't afford to make your repayments and they need to sell the property, it insures them against any sort of negative equity in it. So it's a price you need to pay. So what Krilos is talking about there is that some professionals can actually not have to pay LMI because they sit there and think well, you're an accountant or you're a doctor or you're a lawyer, you're probably going to be okay and you're not going to lose your job, so everything should be all right. That's pretty much right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, pretty much. The bank looks at certain professions as a higher, a more stable income. They're not worried about these professions losing their job or losing their incomes overnight or anything like that. Very hard for these people to get made redundant in their industries, so the bank sees them as less of a risk and so they're happy to lend them more money without using that insurance that you would have to pay for otherwise.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then you talk about sort of a family guarantee or a parental guarantee loan. Tell us about that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so a guarantor loan is when, if someone wants to buy a property and their parents typically it's their parents, it could be another family member, but usually, I would say 95% of cases it's a parent has other properties they can use the property as a guarantee rather than using a deposit. So the bank would say, okay, you want to borrow whatever it is $500,000, you need a $100,000 deposit. But you don't have that. But your parents have a property and it's paid off enough debt that we can use that as security. And so if you couldn't pay off your loan and you went bankrupt or there was a problem, and the bank would use that security as security and could sell or use that to recover their funds, similar to the LMI example.
Speaker 4:Typically that doesn't happen because the bank is quite responsible these days and has to make sure that you can afford the loan, and so they use that as a deposit. And so instead of me having to save up 50 or $100,000 to buy a $500,000 property, I actually have to save up zero and you would use your parents' property or family member's property as that guarantee for the deposit. And then so the bank will give you the full funds, the 500,000 plus the M-Duty. So, yeah, that 103% or 105% loan and you put $0 down. Obviously, in that scenario your loan is quite large, so your payments are going to be larger than if you had put down a deposit at 10% or 20%. But it does mean you get to enter the market with no money down, or get into the market much earlier than you would have otherwise, and that's the argument with it.
Speaker 3:So it might take you three years to save up for a deposit. Well, if you buy a good property in three years time, it's really going to move the need. Also, after that three years of time you can essentially refinance the property because you might have, you know, at least 20% of equity inside of it and then you get a normal loan. So it's a contingent connection to your parents' assets. So if you stuff up, they're going to go after your parents to sell the property, get their money back Pretty much yeah, so it's very rare, like I said, that that occurs, but in a scenario where something majorly wrong occurred, then yes.
Speaker 3:So major parents don't need to refinance their places. They don't need to pull money out to give it to you. It's a 103% mortgage.
Speaker 4:Correct. So, yeah, they don't have to do anything. There's a couple of documents that they obviously got assigned to approve that they are guaranteeing the property, but there's no physical cash transferring or anything like that. It is just like on the title as a security and then once that property you've purchased gets to an 80% LVR, then you can then apply to remove your parent's property as that guarantor. So if something did go wrong, then your parents, their property, would then be unaffected.
Speaker 3:And you need to have a chat about this with your parents, because it means that property in some ways is tied up, so your parents really can't do anything with it, while it's got an incumbency against it. So you need to have very considered conversations with your parents, or parents with your children, around how that would all work and some obligations and expectations around responsibilities with it. But it can work, it can be a great enabler for it and I imagine that's how an investor can build sort of a good property portfolio with limited capital right by doing those things.
Speaker 4:Yeah for sure. So we've got quite a few clients that we've purchased for in the past who have used guarantor loans to get in. And then it does obviously take a little bit longer to build equity, because that first 20% is to remove your parents off the loan. But once they've done that, they've put no money down and then the property continues to go up in value. They pay down some debt and then they build some equity pretty quickly and then they can use that equity to then buy multiple properties or more properties and then obviously that recycles and continues and then so you're building a portfolio and you never put any money down from the start. So it's pretty.
Speaker 4:I think it's a very powerful tool. Obviously it has to be weighed up properly and you know and look at all the numbers and make sure you can afford everything, because your loan is going to be higher, so your repayments are going to be higher. But if you're a lower income earner or if it takes you a long time to save and the market's going to be moving much quicker than you're saving, you may never get into the market, and so it's a way to get in, and then having limited capital this kind of negates that, because once you've got one, then the equity can start building and then you can reuse that. It's a big grant enabler.
Speaker 3:Do people sit there and just think I've just got free money?
Speaker 4:Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 3:In many ways because the issue is, though, you've got to be able to sustain the debt levels and be comfortable and confident around that, and to service a $500,000 loan. It's quite a lot of money, and if you're a younger person inverted commas, whatever that means and you're leveraging a guaranteed loan on behalf of your parents, you need to start thinking about. Well, you might have a moment in time where two people are contributing to the income generated by a family, but if you start having children, that changes things. So you've got to be pretty good with your timing on this. Yeah, got to be pretty good with your timing on this.
Speaker 4:Yeah, anyone that's ever used a guarantor loan. We always say you know, we always get them to have a chat with their accountant, have a chat with their broker and really run the numbers, not just for right now but in the future, especially if you've got plans to have children or you've got children on the way. That's usually the biggest one the dependents, because they cost the most.
Speaker 3:They cost a lot, and sometimes you're better off just paying the LMI right if you've got a smaller deposit, and that way you're not incumbent with your parents or family member, and the more money you put in, the smaller your repayment is going to be.
Speaker 4:Yeah, for sure, so it's just a balancing act.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there's options. So the idea isn't that guarantor loans are the only way. Obviously, like we mentioned, you know, uh, lower percent deposits even if that means paying LMI, or if you're a professional that doesn't have to pay, the LMI is definitely taking advantage of it, but there's so many people that don't even know that they can take advantage of that, um, and so there's just so many options and a lot of people will even um, even if they've got big deposits, they'll still go at 95% right, because you know, and if they get no LMI, because it means they can acquire more quicker, yeah, and leverage it up and realise capital growth out of it.
Speaker 3:Again, everyone is very different and the type of properties you're going to buy are going to be very different. We'll have a chat about that. We'll just go to another break. Stay with us back in a moment. Welcome back, phil Tarrant from Smart Property Investment with Krilos Mansour. First brick property buyers. I think the first brick is pretty important, particularly when it comes to a guarantor loan. If you buy the first property as the wrong property, you'd be stuck a long time with a guarantee against them.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and your parents will be a bit upset with you as well, so there's a bit of family pressure there. Got to get the first one.
Speaker 3:It's very important and I guess that will probably sort of therefore determine the type of property you would buy, with a view towards how big the debt is and how you service the debt. But you'll hear a lot of people on property podcasts or on social media talking about capital growth or cashflow properties, or capital growth or yielding properties two different things. Capital growth is the value of the property grows, and cashflow properties, or capital growth or yielding properties two different things. Capital growth is the value of the property grows and cashflow properties is where, ideally, the rent will contribute a large way to covering the cost of holding the property or be higher than that, so it puts money in your back pocket.
Speaker 3:Two different things. Sometimes you need to choose one over the other. Capital growth properties don't always cashflow orientated properties, and cashflow orientated properties often don't deliver the same amount of capital growth as other properties. Sometimes you get both of them, but what's better? What's a smarter investment? I guess if you're new to it and you've got to get rid of a guaranteed loan, you probably want capital growth, right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think in general, growth is king. In general we buy property to see the appreciation in the property's value, because it's going to grow much quicker than we can typically save, and that's, I guess, the idea of why people might use a guarantor loan is because the property market's going to move quicker than I can save, so I want to get into the market quicker. So in general, growth is king. But of course serviceability is very important if you want to build a portfolio, and so serviceability is obviously being able to pay the bank back. So if you want to buy one or two or three properties or you want to build a portfolio, you got to be able to afford all the debts and all the loans you have and all the repayments.
Speaker 4:So sometimes it's not black and white that we just go growth only. Sometimes we will chase more yield over growth or we'll try and mix it up. To be honest, very rarely do we chase only a yield and completely neglect growth, because the yield returns aren't super amazing in residential real estate, to be honest, and it's very dependent on a lot of external factors. If the interest rates are quite high, like they are at the moment, it's very hard to find a high yielding property that's going to put money in your pocket straight away.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a bit of a misnomer. When it comes to resi property investment, a lot of people sort of come into it thinking that it's easy to build a positively geared property portfolio. It's actually quite tough, yeah, and it's all relevant to how much money you put. You can build a positively property portfolio really, really easily if you have no debt, but most people, when they're new to it, are probably borrowing at least at 80%, if not higher. So it's often very hard to build cashflow positive portfolio and it can take a long time for that to take place.
Speaker 4:Yeah, for sure. I think balancing the debt and the serviceability, but still really targeting growth, is probably the way to go most of the time, but it is obviously horses for courses and making sure that you get the right strategy for the right people. So earlier I was talking about a client who's a doctor and his wife is a doctor, so they're on very, very high incomes.
Speaker 3:What do a couple of young doctors sort of make Instead of talking out of school, because it takes you so long.
Speaker 4:What do a couple of young doctors sort of make Instead of talking out of school? Oh, because it takes you so long to become a doctor, when they actually graduated at around 27. They're actually getting paid quite well. Obviously, it depends on your specialty, but they're 250 minimum each, which is a solid amount of income. Yeah, it's not bad.
Speaker 4:It's considerable. I mean, you're talking about half a million dollars combined now. So, for this situation, $100 give or take a week is not going to make a difference to them on the yield. But we also work with a lot of people who are single income earners and first year out of uni, or still in university, have part-time jobs, whatever, and they might be earning $60,000 to $80,000 a year, and so the yield, or the cash flow from a property, is more important. Yeah, to make sure that they can service. When we build our strategies, or when we do our data analysis to find the right place for people to buy, it is always a growth focus, but we take into account the minimum yield we need for that person, okay, and so what we find, though, is usually, if there's a very strict yield criteria, we do have to sacrifice a bit of. You know what we believe is growth yeah, an area that we believe is going to grow quite well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's interesting you say that in that a lot of people will think, well, we buy out here, so therefore we'll try and match the client to where we choose to buy. But what you're saying is you're saying you know people are going to have borrowing caps and therefore they're going to have price point caps, but you need to view it through the lens of how much they're able to weather the negative cashflow connected with the property, which is going to limit your searches. Right, that's going to tell you where you can search Pretty much.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so we purchase, we work nationwide, so we're not just in Sydney, we buy across the whole country. And we do that because, yeah, I like to work with the first time, like with people just starting and a lot of the time they don't have a budget for Sydney or Sydney might not just be the right choice for them, and so being able to look everywhere is a blessing, but it's also a curse when you have, you know, so many suburbs. So, being when you have yield criteria and whatnot, it does obviously narrow down that search.
Speaker 3:So where do you like at the moment? Like you know, where are you finding? Where do you find? You're buying the majority of properties for the purpose of capital growth at the moment.
Speaker 4:Based on the clients that we typically have between 600 and 850,. We've been doing a lot in Adelaide.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 4:We've been buying in Adelaide for the last three years Very consistently, yeah, and before that. So five years ago, four years ago, we were very heavily into Brisbane yeah, anywhere, in particular in Brisbane you guys, don't expect you to give me all the secrets.
Speaker 4:We did a lot of work up around Fernie Grove, fernie Hills and then a little bit south side as well, around that Tingalpa and Wynnum and surrounding suburbs. Yeah, that's Caboolture. No, caboolture is a bit further north, further north, yeah, more like Deception Bay. People take a few suburbs and so we were pretty heavy into Brisbane five years ago, six, five and four years ago. You've been doing this a while then. Yeah, so business is moving on to its sixth year. Wow, so we're not thank you. We've passed that five-year mark that everyone talks about, for business is to get there. So that's cool. But yeah, so we just followed the data and we were buying in oh yeah, within 10Ks of Brisbane CBD for under $400,000. Crazy. So, yeah, it wasn't that long ago, and now they're, you know, up to a million plus in these areas, and if you wanted to get into the Brisbane market for 700,000, you're really looking at the Logan or Ipswich, or, and it's not is Logan like 700 grand now, is it as a minimum really you could get under for a four bedroom house.
Speaker 4:Yeah, for a four bedroom. Yeah, you could get under 700.
Speaker 3:I was buying stuff there for like a couple hundred grand Kingston and joints like that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was just looking at some previous clients' results from back when we first started and we have properties in Hillcrest and Marsden and surrounding for 200, 250. But the market's changed and we change with it and we follow the data. But the last three years we've been pretty heavy in the Adelaide market.
Speaker 3:Okay. Yeah, and still bullish Still there, yeah, and I think Adelaide, Adelaide's just one of those places. Adelaide's median price is higher than Melbourne these days. I think Sydney, Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide are higher than Melbourne's. Are you in Melbourne yet?
Speaker 4:You're looking around. Are you in Melbourne yet? You're looking around? Yeah, so we've seen in the data that indicating Melbourne might have a bit of a run, so we started buying again in Melbourne at the end of last year, but before that it was still a bit. I don't think the data was solid enough for us to jump in yet. Yeah, but we have just started again to buy. The problem with Victoria, though, is the stamp duty is so high.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you never know what the government's going to do, what the next time they're going to impose a new tax. Yeah, you know, and this is the issue right Like, and it's sort of extrapolated out you know how interest rates and inflation affect property investment strategies. Right, there's a lot of things you can't control. Yeah, there's so many variables and so this, this presentation I was giving to a group of people the other day, was it like you, standing up with a powerpoint type of thing? Pretty much, yes, very old school um, well it's.
Speaker 4:It's hard to know because they weren't there specifically for, uh, real estate talk. Um, I was asked to give a talk as a pre-talk to another talk, and so I I did it.
Speaker 3:I guess it sort of resonates with you that sort of stuff, because it sounds as though you really enjoy the education aspect of, yeah, you know, introducing the concept around of property investment to people looking for wealth creation or might not even thinking about it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that's why I always say yes to these talks, because most of the time, these presentations that I'm getting asked to give them, especially as a pre-talk, a lot of people are not there for real estate by pre-talk, like before someone else.
Speaker 4:Before someone else talks, whatever the main talk was, and so people are not there for real estate information and so a lot of those people don't have any real estate information. We're in the real estate industry and you talk to a lot of professionals and so all you hear is real estate, real estate, real estate. But some people just don't have any clue and knowledge, and so I always say yes, because you don't know whose mindset you can change, like my whole mindset changed when I got a book because my dad went to a seminar to get a free so there's an inflection point in some ways.
Speaker 3:So if you're the custodian of that inflection point for people, that's you change people's lives. I think so.
Speaker 4:I think it's pretty cool, to be honest, and I always. I never know if people are interested or not when I'm talking. I only know after, when I walk out and five or six people follow me and can we ask some questions? And so, yeah, we had a few questions, which was cool. What?
Speaker 3:sort of questions did you get after? So these some completely separate. You're pre-talking. They said, hey, this guy, yeah, I'm talking about property, people probably know the good thing is that most australians have some sort of connectivity. They either rent property or they live in it right or you know. But there's got to be this sort of nascent moment where people just go, oh, property investment, the idea's got to come from somewhere.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that's true and you know so. The questions we typically get asked are like similar to what we've been talking about today, and that's why I guess it's a good topic is people are asking hey, km, I've only got.
Speaker 3:People call you KM.
Speaker 4:Yeah, everyone just calls me KM. People will just say to me hey, km, I've only got 80 grand. Everything you said was really cool, but can I get in with 80 grand? I said, well, 80 grand is a lot of money. If that's on a 10% Buy two, yeah, buy two. Or if you can put that as a 10% deposit and you get a bit of money for stamp duty or use that. You're talking about a $700,000 property. All of a sudden they're like oh, that's a lot more than I thought I could invest in.
Speaker 3:What about the debt? How am I going to pay for the debt?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:People are still scared of debt.
Speaker 4:True, true for sure. I think I've seen a mindset shift, definitely in the younger generation, where they're not as scared of debt as probably like my parents were. You know my dad. He's a builder. He built his own home and then paid it off and then sold it and then used those funds to build his new home which he lives in, and that was it. And then I'm out here collecting debt like candy and he's like what are you doing? But it's just the mindset shift.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and the mindset's a key thing, and this comes to, like you know, interest rates and inflation all impact investment strategies. Well, it's all relevant, right, but what I'm taking from you is that there's a uniqueness to every single person's decision making.
Speaker 4:Yeah for sure. And so that group of people I was speaking to was so diverse. You had high income earners, you had low income earners. You had uni students who are not earning anything. You had married people, you had kids. It was so diverse. And if I was to stand there and say, hey, you should buy in whatever X suburb. You should buy in this suburb for 1.5 million or 1.8 million.
Speaker 4:And then wait for it to grow, and then it's not going to work for 99% of those people and unless you tailor your approach, it's just not going to work. Evan goes back to what you said right at the start is that majority of people don't get past one or two. It's because there's no strategy and it's not personalised. They're just jumping into anything.
Speaker 3:You sort of mentioned a high income. What do you classify? I want to give some context to that. What do you classify? Because a lot of people probably think they can't invest in property because they don't earn enough money. And then you sort of mentioned high income. What do you classify as a high income earner?
Speaker 4:So I think this changes constantly, but I think the last thing I read, which was the average income for an Australian, was around $80,000, give or take, so it's always changing.
Speaker 3:I think in Sydney it's about $90,000 or something in Sydney, yeah, $96,000 or somewhere like that yeah.
Speaker 4:So we look at. I think high income is probably $130,000 plus because you're usually now in the highest tax bracket as well. So if that's how the government's looking at your money, it's probably a good way to look at it. But again, it depends where you live. Sydney obviously a bit more expensive.
Speaker 3:A lot of people say they can't live on 130.
Speaker 4:Correct, that's right. They eat noodles and beans, correct, that's it. So 130, I think, is like a standard way to look at it as a higher income, because as a percentage I think you do go into that top 1%, yeah, but obviously 150 plus is yeah, but Sydney is not the entire country and we always got to I think we forget that as people living in Sydney the whole country doesn't revolve around us.
Speaker 3:To be fair, though, isn't Sydney cheaper than what a lot of people think?
Speaker 4:I think cheaper. Depending on what you do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Like you know, if you get out into the burbs and stuff like where, into your sort of, maybe some of your migrant communities. Right, if you know the game, you can live cheaply.
Speaker 4:Yeah for sure. We see granny flats and whatnot being rented out for $250 a week and whatnot. You just got to give up the. You know Sydney. You know Sydney city lifestyle, sydney city lifestyle Smash avocado at.
Speaker 3:Balmoral Beach on a Sunday. Yeah, so does it matter like interest rates and inflation, like that really affects your inflation and what you earn will affect or shape your investment strategy.
Speaker 4:I don't think it matters overly too much. What I always tell people is if you're worried about I had this conversation yesterday with someone I said, cause he was a little bit worried about the interest rates, and I said to him, hey, if we could rewind the clock 10 years and would you buy a property? And he said, yeah, for sure. I said, but I didn't tell you what the interest rate was and he said, yeah, good point. I said, yeah, it doesn't really matter. Real estate is a get rich slow scheme, right? And so when we're buying property for 15, 20, 25 years, what's happening right now or over the next three months or the last three months is somewhat irrelevant. Of course you've got to be able to afford it. That's one thing. So if the interest rates will impact whether you can service your debts, but in 20 years' time you don't know what the interest rates were when you purchased that property 20 years ago.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 4:And you're not going to care and you're not going to worry about short-term fluctuations. They're always going to be there and interest rates there's always going to be there and interest rates will. There's always going to be an interest rate announcement, however, eight times a year now. It is whatever it is. They're going to announce it and we're going to react to it. Yeah, but really, if you've got your strategy and your plan, the short-term fluctuations don't matter too much.
Speaker 3:It's got to cut the noise out and if you buy a good property and you wait 20 years time and you've probably gone through, you know a couple of market cycles. You know you're probably going to go. That was a good investment.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, and you'd probably say I should have bought more. I should have bought more.
Speaker 3:That's what everyone says I wish I did. I should be buying more now. I know I should be buying more probably now I'm not. Yeah, I should be. I I've got every excuse under the sun why I'm not, but I know in 20 years' time I'd go. I'm happy I bought that when I did buy it.
Speaker 4:For sure, for sure. When the rates are higher like they are now, you obviously hear people complaining, and fair enough.
Speaker 3:like you know, there are obviously people who are feeling the pinch like from a lifestyle perspective, and you know working extra jobs and whatever it is, cost of living and all that, but what you need to remember, though, is that the rates at the moment aren't a lot higher than what the long-term average is. If rates come back a percent and a bit, like that's about it, they're at their average long-term average. So, like you know, a lot of people think, oh, the rates are so high at the moment. They used to be. You know, you used to be able to get a 1.72% mortgage. Now it's like six and a half. Well, yeah, like it's never. Unless something drastic happens, they're never going to go back to 0.1% official cash rate.
Speaker 4:I think people got very excited over it, and rightly so, because it was exciting times. They were giving out money for free. But that's obviously not the norm. And, yeah, if you look at history, yeah, the norms is pretty much 1% less than where we are at the moment and it'll stabilize. And the RBA has kept telling us as well that they're targeting around 3% anyway, so it's not going to get much lower than what people are expecting.
Speaker 3:No, I reckon in this when we get to a terminal rate, whenever that is downwards terminal rate, like if you're getting mortgages with a four in it, I'd be surprised. You know, as a property investor you assume you might get sort of low fives On the basis there is more rate cuts For sure as an investor interest only stuff.
Speaker 4:Yeah, all my loans are seven and a half plus at the moment. So yeah, we'll take five. It'd be good for the cashflow. But again, we didn't buy those properties, worrying about the rates. I couldn't tell you what the rates were when I bought them, to be honest. I mean it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 3:I can't remember. I sort of got to map it and document and save it right. But like I remember at certain times going, oh yeah, I think I was paying a lot more than what I was paying right now I can't remember. I know I actually know my rates now really well. Yeah, because I Because they're higher, because they're higher, but I still worked hard on them and I think I got pretty good rates.
Speaker 3:I've been sort of like mid to low-ish sixes right for interest-only stuff, and it's not by 6.44, I think I've got with some lenders at the moment. Yeah, even if it comes out to 5.44, it doesn't really move the needle that much.
Speaker 4:Not overly.
Speaker 3:It's not going to change largely what my strategy is Correct If my rates come back a percentage point.
Speaker 4:For sure. Yeah, I might be able to borrow a tiny bit more Maybe, but it's tiny, right, it's very small.
Speaker 3:I think the number was the 25 basis points that was cut last month, assuming that lenders pass it on, and I think they should all be passing. I think 28th of Feb was when a lot of the lenders were passing on this stuff.
Speaker 3:I ain't seen nothing yet. I haven't seen either, and I reckon, depending on how you invest or what entity you're investing in, just don't assume you're going to get interest rates cut. I think it goes for you about another $12,000 of serviceability. Yeah, it's not huge. It's not huge. Maybe I've got that number completely butchered, if I have. I'm happy to say I'm wrong, but I think I'm right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's not a massive figure.
Speaker 4:It's not a big deal and I always, you know, when we have conversations with people and when we have a three-way call with them and the broker, and they're offering a couple of different options and they're chasing the lower interest rate and you're talking about 0.1% difference, but one lender is giving you an offset and a few extra facilities and one lender is not, and they're chasing the rate and it's like that 0.1% doesn't mean anything to you. You're talking about a couple of dollars a week, really, and so, yeah, I don't think people should be stressed too much about the interest rates in terms of building a strategy and a plan, and it doesn't really influence your long-term results.
Speaker 3:So your first investment probably was in Geelong, right across the road from Deakin University. Yeah, so when you were at uni you used to hung out in the coffee shops and bars, just being a uni student.
Speaker 4:Yeah, pretty much. I lived in student housing. So you actually lived in student housing for three years, yeah, so my first house there was seven of us. The second place I lived there was eight people living in the house, like a shared house, or was it like on campus? Yeah, or was it like on campus, yeah, no, no, shared house. So the on-campus accommodation was very expensive, so we-.
Speaker 3:So who had the lease? Someone have a lease. Yeah, so they're Eight blokes living in there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so it's a rooming house. Investors own them. They're very, very investor-focused products.
Speaker 3:So you had your own room, your own dunny. So you have your own room. Yeah, okay, you have your own room, yeah.
Speaker 4:And then it's a shared kitchen, shared lounge, shared bathrooms.
Speaker 3:But everyone's got their own lease on their thing.
Speaker 4:Correct, it's individual leases per room. Was it like trumple? It did Good fun? It's definitely good fun. You meet people that you'd never meet in your life and you would never cross paths with them, and then you end up being good friends with these people. Some of these people came to my wedding and you just, yeah, you go to university, you come back and you just muck around, you play cards and you have, you know, muck around, be uni students.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're a uni student, so despite you building some whiz-bang spreadsheet which sounds like it's propelled you into you know, giving you the sophistication of making informed investment decisions. Now you bought your first property, interstate in Geelong, yeah, you know. So you bought interstate. Compared to where you grew up in Sydney, you know, when you know sort of conclude on this point like investing outside of what you know, like that's a mindset thing, but I imagine it's probably pretty fundamental. You don't have to invest in Sydney if you grew up in Sydney.
Speaker 4:Yeah, for sure. I mean, I own multiple properties and I don't own any properties in Sydney even to now.
Speaker 3:Is that because it just hasn't been the right environment to buy?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it just hasn't made sense for our portfolio and yeah, the environment, the cost involved and the returns were just superior elsewhere at the time when we were buying and based off the data. So that Geelong property I guess was slightly coincidental that I was in Geelong because I still made that purchase based off the data and information that I had. But Sydney and people say, oh, I want to buy in Sydney because I know Sydney or whatever, and you don't really know Sydney. You know where the shops are and whatnot, but you don't know the data behind it, unless you know the data but you know it. But if you don't know the data, you don't really know Sydney.
Speaker 4:And then not just Sydney, sydney is so many suburbs in Sydney where we're recording and where I live and where I used to have that restaurant, all very different markets and they will all perform very differently. So we don't necessarily think Sydney is bad, we don't necessarily think Sydney is good. It is dependent on the person that's purchasing that property. And so when we run the data analysis and we find we're finding and again a lot of our clients are 700 to a million kind of range or 1.1. A lot of these people will end up purchasing outside of Sydney because the returns are just much better in both growth and yield. If I'm going to get a very similar growth return to Sydney and one's going to pay me a bit more rent, well, what would I buy in Sydney for Makes sense?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's good. Well, thanks for coming in, krillis. I've enjoyed chatting with you, mate, and it's good to actually sort of for us to simplify a lot of these terms and concepts around it all, because investing probably ain't that hard, yeah, the key thing is time, yeah, and making sure your first property is the right property.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's it. Well, thank you very much for having me. Yeah, it's good to see you, mate.
Speaker 3:It sounds like you're building a great little business or what potentially a big business while also investing in property Self's first brick property buyers agency. How do people track you down? What's the best way to find you, mate?
Speaker 4:We're on social, we're on every social, and I think we probably post more content than any other buyers agency in this country.
Speaker 3:My face is just blasted all over social media? Do you get much hate mail? Do people sort of complain to you saying this guy.
Speaker 4:We get a bit on TikTok, not so much everywhere else, but TikTok's a strange one, to be honest. Yeah, I don't know how many serious property investors are hanging around TikTok, yeah but it's not too hard to share a post onto TikTok anyway, once you've done it for Instagram and Facebook and. Linkedin and YouTube. So it's just an extra button. So we do it. But yeah, we're everywhere. So if you search First Brick, just write First Brick, property, on any platform. We'll pop up, we'll track it down, yeah.
Speaker 3:There you go. All right, you heard me first. I hope you enjoyed that everyone. We'll get Krillis back to have a chat at some point as well. I think getting some more of these concepts and terms, lots of other discussions like this. You can go and check it out on smartprontyinvestmentcom. Krillis is going to do me a favour. You're going to leave a review on the SmartPronty Investment Show.
Speaker 4:I did it like four years ago. Did you? Yeah, tell your friends.
Speaker 3:Then On Apple and Spotify yeah, reviews please. That's the only thing I ask for. I don't ask for a lot, but I'm told by my team here I've got to keep asking for reviews and stuff. So I'll be looking out for them. I get a kick out of them as well. It's good. So do the team, who I'm not like. They get to sit behind the microphone and do all the talking, but everyone else does the hard work. They get great satisfaction, knowing that what we're doing actually makes a difference. You can find us at smartpropertyinvestmentcomau Social media. Look for us, just smart property, you'll track us down. We'll see you again next time. Until then, bye-bye.
Speaker 2:The information featured in this podcast is general in nature and does not take into consideration your financial situation or individual needs, and should not be relied upon. Before making any investment, insurance, tax, property or financial planning decision, you should consult a licensed professional who can advise whether your decision is appropriate for you. Guests appearing on this podcast may have a commercial relationship with the companies mentioned.
